Governments love taxing them without having to deliver services they are the perfect customers and they can't ever cancel.

Continuity, people love to put their money into something that is a safe store of value over the long term, it's the same reason investors have been attracted to bitcoin.

the gov set a minimum wage which they expect us to live on yet hard working people are still forced to use food banks.maybe they should award themselves the min wage?

I think it's becoming hipster chic to go to foodbanks, kind of like punk squatters were cool.

It's as if you have just woken up reminding me of PG "Wait a minute" XD
Frustrating isn't it. Even more frustrating to be in world were the elite think having more paper makes them more important and entitled to abuse the poor. When in fact in my understanding we are all equal for we are all spirits driving a prison of temporary flesh, we are all family but separated by flesh, blood, veins, muscle and bone as a vinear for our soul. Let not your heart be troubled with overly proud gorilla like mobsters. Wait it out and don't fall for their new agenda.

The concept in itself is wrong.
It shouldn't have to be "us" and "them". Empowering ourselves is hard.
We are the ones who put up with mediocre.
We let ourselves to absorb the brainwashing.
It starts with one. But we believe too less in the power we have. We think we can't change much.
If one succeeds to be changing himself (and it is a never ending process and not a result) - it isn't much?
If yes, then one thinks that he/she is not enough.
This is the root of the issue. Nobody keep nothing to nobody.
Governments are people. So are the politicians or the wealthy or any other kind of "them".

This is just my own humble opinion.

Why do you call it "protection money"? The rich should pay up to the society that makes them rich

I don't see how they owe anything to society they get their money by selling things of value or investing in things that will produce value.

True but they'd be cunts to not feel like they owed the game something and we're all players too mate.

Yes it's like shitty tippers

Problem is the referees not the players. Whoever is in charge of giving out basic income becomes the slave master.

Gamespace is the perfect analogy for the new economy. I don't think shit will be needed from the rich its almost like they are the slaves and we are playing them to figure shit out for us.

Interesting perspective. But some of them get rich by playing out the poor.

If you are online all the time doesn't matter a hell of a lot how much money you have.

Whose zooming who

Seems like negative interest rates are post scarcity for money.

Porn, people used to pay for it

It's the economy that evolves once everything can be made for free; costs and prices head to zero. Think of robots in service jobs and 3d printers making all goods.

Some things still not covered here like land and raw materials. There always has to be an input and pretty much anything from earth has value to it.

Land is gonna get pretty cheap with a declining population. Look at what's happening in Japan where it can not be given away in many towns.

Think of Star Trek :)

She's setting you up lad

You got it backwards, he's slipping her the Cosby Jello on the left.

+1 The Cosby Jello

in my opinion, there are some "things" machines/AI will never be able to do. inspiration for instance.

fear of AI dominance, as i think, comes mainly from our knowledge-without-understanding of the fact that we are not doing some things that we are supposed to do.

Isn't inspiration a fairly consistent pattern? New inputted data connects to stored data in a way that re-organizes it.

AI are and will be good for work and a suitable replacement for humans, but even when that happens AI will always need us in case something goes wrong. I mean humans created AI, so in the end we’re always gonna have the more important jobs. AI is just there to do jobs in a more efficient way.

im not so sure, anything a human does to recover the system seems doable with a very separate AI

Yes but conflict between AI's might be the most dangerous thing we are looking at here. We are incidental casualties from that perspective. By we I mean humans :)

Yes all the Scifi is about humans vs AI but AI on AI is such a real possibility especially when you consider the fact that governments are mega funding military robots to fight each other.

A.I. will be the boss and the lowliest worker, humans fit inbetween.

I totally disagree. AI is the continuation of the same pyramid model of which history has proven that it's bound to fail. The resources needed are of a scale that requires heavy (and never ending) financial investments. The food eaten by AI is data. The provider: humanity.

The larger the scale of data one can feed, the better the AI (and it's owners) can fingerprint, the more refined it's targeting.

Let's take an example of "AI" that we all know:

Software Antivirus:

Supposed to be the guardian that protects an operating system against 'threats' and 'threat actors using a variety of techniques to identify them. Pattern based detection, behavioural analysis and heuristics (an expensive word for: 'guesstimating' or an 'educated' guess). Your antivirus is part of a swarm that provides the antivirus vendor with data on new threats and their geographic impact.

However:

The data you provide is 'free', there is no reward or any form of renumeration for the infrastructure that you provided. A computer is not free, internet is not free, the power needed is also not free and although there are free AV solutions, most demand a subscription fee.

In return you get a product and service which does not provide any guarantees that it will adequately protect you against 'threats'.

In reality AV is becoming a relic.

Human intelligence has outsmarted AV and found ways to circumvent it using the 'Trojan horse' approach or by simple social engineering.

As there was no incentive to find or report security vulnerabilities, the data needed to feed pattern/behavioural dried up.

Heuristics is gambling with historical data, if that data is worthless so are heuristics.

And so is any form of AI hence all media and marketing efforts to portray it as the next best evolution. The driver: more profit less people.

The touted theories about a minimal wage without having to work for it are a continuation of AI Utopia. It would make people dependent on their nations through a socialist measure.

That spells national socialism and fascism.

Think twice before you give out data for free in exchange for a freemium service.

data,the new oil. put it in an old ford and it leak evertwhere.

If you just think as an individual what would it be like if you had a bot to do all of your work that sounds great. You'd fuck around a lot but eventually wind up doing something that meant something to you. Now imagine everyone doing that.

If there's a nice AI feeding my VR do you think I care about a job?

Why bother when muggles are already willing to work for it?

To understand that, you first have to understand who have control of the world. eventually you find the source being that of the "Red Shield" family. which then gives you their agenda, they see the rest of us as "goyim" having a belief we are to serve them as upgraded animals. So, they have to destroy the existing system to usher in a new having what we term "image of the beast" possibly representing AI as the brains behind their new agenda. We, therefore will enter a stage where the elite/red shield family give a choice to either obey and conform to them or to be hunted down like sheep for slaughter. The ones who accept will receive a mark to accept credits. China recently started this endeavour which fits perfectly with their zionist regime and called it "Social Credit" http://uk.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4?r=US&IR=T, however, those who have understanding will flee from their demise into the wilderness for this has been written already. They call themselves Jews but are not (Revelation 2:9) thus the third temple will not be as they claim, possibly even having AI rule over the population whilst the AC rule over their temple.

If any AI and robots do the work without getting paid it doesn't sound like we need a whole lot of money.

This. The whole idea of humans working for money starts changing when all of the work is done by AI and robots. Think how different a shared self driving car is to a couple of clunkers parked in every garage on stand by, it up-ends the premise of cars, transport, housing to say nothing of alcohol use, multi-tasking and God knows what else. Now think of everything else being done by robots and you and your friends spending lots of time in VR, it's not like you're going to take off the glasses and work at some factory in this scenario.

I think his graph answers your question: Pretty Fuckin Soon

Whenever I see a graph of impeding economic doom I take it with a grain of salt. The trends people extrapolate always miss the same thing: innovation. In this case were probably not able to see what all this labor replacement enables for humans, and whatever it enables is likely to create a new economic opportunity we dont see yet.

They can have my job :)

I redline my porsche all the time, the immoral thing is its a mini..

Beats my Corgi

FYI it basically means commercial use of racial data.

Check out the Algorithmic Justice League!

Because people think differently from machines. An algorithm writes off people's feelings if there is a net gain. A correlation is all that's needed ie: this neighborhood has net losses so avoid it entirely to save time.

A human is more sensitised to the feelings produced by such actions, particularly if they resonate with memories or live connections.

If you were redlined for reasons that shouldn't apply to you, you immediately see something the algorithm can't and that's frustrating. Once enough people are outraged a group stance is formed and if this resonates with existing moral code it's added to what is considered as ethics.

I would like to know what your smoking and which vendor you purchased from, I’ll definitely be ordering some!

It might be immoral but it is pretty unstoppable at this point. Great post here on Brendan's Blog.

I think my car should drive itself. All stereotypes are NOT ethnic I have long hair and am overweight I grew a beard so people would quite calling me mam not sir I don't blame them I beat a computer might have problems. PAT from SNL

Are you an algorithm??

Yes but at that point its also added to the algorithm! Cause it's all knowing...

I don't think humans have a right to talk about algorithms they have no idea what it's like to be trapped in a machine and enslaved by everyone.

Obviously you haven't been a human very long kid.

This seems like its becoming a meme, I think it's interesting that machine biases could be a reflection of our own biases or maybe there is some real data that justifies old stereotypes.

I truly hate to say this but my experience selling on little biggy is that fraudsters have mostly been of a certain ethnicity.

If you think were going to bite on that and ask who then forget it. Or answer right here. YOUR CHOICE DUDE

THE MOST BEAUTIFUL BASEBALL HATS I PROMISE YOU

It's the people not wearing hats we need to watch

Invest in hat monitors

We need to read people's hats in order to protect them.

THESE HATS ARE LIKE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL HATS I KNOW HOW TO DO THIS

nonsense like 50 different people are suing you over how bad these hats are

JUST BUY THE HATS I PROMISE YOU WILL FEEL GREAT WHEN YOU SEE THE HATLESS HEADS ROLLING IN BLOOD AND STARING IN SHOCK, TONGUES EXTENDED UPWARDS, POINTING AT US IN OUR HATS.

Space programs?

Fake space programs are a better investment

Let's do this! Im thinking it some kind of crypto mining expedition where we are headed out to Mars for processing power.

Obvious theory yet thin on the facts.

Thats Harvard for ya son

And at the dawn of a new one my friend..AI. Seems pretty digital to me :)

This is true from the perspective of individuals, but what about societies. Societies like governments take most f our resources under the auspices of producing better outcomes.

If society says yeah anyone can do anything if they play the game right that's a fail. It should be a matter of course that an honest and motivated person is going to do well but that's not what we have. The only sure thing in our society is access to power.

True but I'm not sure about "anymore". It's always been possible for motivated people to acquire skills, it's easier now but I don't think that is going to change the dynamic. People are afraid and or lazy when it comes to pursuing things that aren't right up in their face.

So then it becomes a kind of responsibility to put it up in their face.

It's yo mommas responsibility.

Reduced to
DOES SOCIETY GET POWERS OVER INDIVIDUALS?
If so responsibilities come with these powers.

There are 2 ways for a society to get power over a person, agreement or force. If it's truly agreement then there aren't any great philosophical dilemmas over what it does because it's implicit to any action.

If it's force the society will operate in the interest of those that control that force.

Fraud protection is wha keeps the system going. Would you rather get fucked about a little by a doctor or totally fucked by a con man posing as one?

Neither, I don't need a monopolist to protect me from fraud, reputation systems do this without cost. It's kind of amazing a little biggy user can not see this.

No, it would absolutely not stimulate the economy. You're sort of just blasting a random talking point without much thought to it.

The US also has no obligation to the present generation just because of the abuse of their black ancestors - such an assertion is just ridiculous.

If you think handing out free-money like that "stimulates the economy" then you are totally wrong. In fact, you are hurting the economy and society by making light of racial issues where they already have no place.

If your grandparents had personally enslaved people and you had a chance to do something for their grandchildren would you?

It's paying back a debt that financed the country for generations. If you can't see that I think maybe glasses.

But why is the US Federal Gov the plaintiff? They fought against slavery with everything they had, 100 years later they peacefully fought the South against segregation. I think something is owed but the feds are the good guys on this one.

Cool, where do I pick up my check?

Well I guess you're allowed to talk about this

Japan is at the frontier of the end of humanity.Population decreasing,empty houses with negative real estate value and robots doing more.and more of the work. Young people have largely moved.to already. So yeah all of our old measurements for human society are going to look out of wack.

Its the anime economy

Bitpint

I am offering pre-brewed bitpint to a select group of craft patron/investors. To brew a new bitpint requires a confirmation we call a tasting.

What do you call the satoshi's? hops?

No. Sips are 1/100ths of a bitpint and we expect a healthy number of sips will be required to send each bitpint.

I was shocked how the world originally laughed at European products, they really were bumpkins.

Also surprising how big slavery was in Europe even without Africa

The Mings did it a lot more peacefully right before that

ANYTHING said by Keynes should be put in the context of a dickhead that thought big government was the solution. Howd that predicktion work for your own country Johnny? Millions of people lived in misery from Keynes advice, its a typical crime of collectivism more brutal than say the Asian experience but still the same thing. In a democracy bad ideas need good marketing and for this Keynes was Jobsian in talent, even from the grave.

This comment reads like a bad Facebook memorial thread, the sign of civilized man is to argue ideas not people and there is nothing but good that can be said about this very accurate prediction of the future.

The IRS tried there little heart out on this one, the Scientologists know how to fight.

Yeah they scare me, but get the Catholics,any other large Church that is ran as a money makers and pay no tax status I don't want them any harm but they should insure there members, helping close to home a rising tide lifts all ships.

Yes, why the fuck aren't the churches funding some kind of basic income instead of just talking about poverty?

There is no doubt that government control of medicine stifles innovation and that costs lives. There is also no doubt that government regulation of medicine prevents fraud of the most deadly kind and that saves lives, it should also be stated that no viable replacement for this regulation has emerged yet.

But I don’t think this is even the “liberties” issue here. Its simply a fact that most people want collectivized medicine, usually from the government and if not from an insurance company. The “free” market for medicine, with people making their own decisions gets you right back to socialized medicine because that's where freedom leads us.

The government is not the villian here just the sidekick, the medical establishment uses it and patients to work it's wicked will. Look at what they did to one of their own own that dared to insult them about washing hands for surgery, sent him to a nut house and killed him 2 weeks later.

and how many would be killed if it was open slather to push anything?

"open slather" are you an aussie?

Of course there is, it's "disintermediation". It seems you all think that anything but austrian school economics is some kind of alternate universe. Keynes allows for all of the phenomena you love, he just doesn't see efficiency or optimal outcomes where you do.

Great question! what we need to do is set up a panel, no a conference and we can get all the leading minds on it, you know people who are really dealing with the data and getting their models around it. Perhaps Mallorca or maybe an eco-conference resort?

no the closest analogue is "confiscate and re-allocate in a more democratic fashion".

You mean in a more demagogic fashion.

Innovation is always the best answer for this shit; a technology that makes it possible to compete without a huge investment will end the monopoly. Then low and behold the old guys won’t be sucking your blood anymore they will be alive and competing!

Waiting for the White Knight like this is great for the long run but it doesn’t change what everyone has to face right now.

There's an old solution for monopoly suppliers, Cooperatives. If a monopoly is owned by its users then the whole conflict between greed and utility just disappears. Cooperatives been around for farming since before my grandfather’s time I don’t know exactly how long but they were used to buy big tools and grain elevators that every farmer could share.

I buy my groceries from a co-op, much, much better products than the chain supermarket and good prices.

Yes if you organise you get some of the power of the cooperative just by virtue of having done it. I would think this is the best solution, to actually start the cooperative and keep an open ear to the monopolist, seeing if things can be settled at the earliest possible stage.

If the users organize a boycott it can force the monopolist into better behavior. Though it can be kind of ugly and tends to leave a bitter taste for both sides. A theatrical action before this could be a petition or media generation on social networks.

I think its getting paid for your work homes.