I think his graph answers your question: Pretty Fuckin Soon

If any AI and robots do the work without getting paid it doesn't sound like we need a whole lot of money.

It doesn’t sound like we need a whole lot of people more like!

People would just do what they wanted to do. People wouldn’t be chasing money, but chasing their passions. I was a chef for two years, but fucked it off because the money and hours were shit! If money wasn’t an object and I could do it when I felt like it then that’s what I’d do.

so thats why theres negative interest rates

Read life 3.0 by max tegmark. There is a vast community funded by Elon Musk reseraching AI and its potential as we speak. I wonder if the Simpsons can predict the eventuality that machines could become superior to humans like they did with forecasting Donald Trump as President.

yeah they oughta add an a.i. character for homer to play off of

Don't worry about it, AI will figure it out for us.

But the bottom line is, the corporations that are investing in AI still need to make their profits too. If no one works, no one has money, so how would these corporations stay afloat?

There will need to be some sort of equilibrium - much as (most) humans now realise we can't keep burning Earth's resources, AI systems wouldn't be programmed to make humanity defunct. Not unless the world manages to move away from its capitalist consumerist ambitions; which it won't. We're greedy creatures.

if everything we want is fed by an ai created vr feed we may still be consumers but things gonna be damn cheap.

Check the PDF in the link out. also Elon musk said AI will eventually take over all jobs and we all get a universal wage worldwide 🤷‍♂️

Once the textile loom has finished devastating the working landscape.

Lol the luddites are still operating against the looms as we speak. Especially up North.

i thought you were joking so i looked it up. ffs

atms resulted in more bank branches and overall, more tellers.

For the moment, we are safe. They haven't even managed to get self checkouts working properly yet, so I'm not getting in a driverless car. All it takes is a sensor to fail, and it's game over. I work with sensors - you wouldn't want to get in a driverless car for a long while.


Automation - whole different ballgame, and this is the real fear

To understand that, you first have to understand who have control of the world. eventually you find the source being that of the "Red Shield" family. which then gives you their agenda, they see the rest of us as "goyim" having a belief we are to serve them as upgraded animals. So, they have to destroy the existing system to usher in a new having what we term "image of the beast" possibly representing AI as the brains behind their new agenda. We, therefore will enter a stage where the elite/red shield family give a choice to either obey and conform to them or to be hunted down like sheep for slaughter. The ones who accept will receive a mark to accept credits. China recently started this endeavour which fits perfectly with their zionist regime and called it "Social Credit" http://uk.businessinsider.com/china-social-credit-system-punishments-and-rewards-explained-2018-4?r=US&IR=T, however, those who have understanding will flee from their demise into the wilderness for this has been written already. They call themselves Jews but are not (Revelation 2:9) thus the third temple will not be as they claim, possibly even having AI rule over the population whilst the AC rule over their temple.

I think you need to stop smoking so much weed dude... and maybe stop reading so much geopolitical and religious fiction too!

When banks create a new loan they must also create an equal and opposite liability, in the form of a new demand deposit. Meaning when banks loan they create money out of thin air. They simply make it exist.

There is a really good series on YouTube that goes in to great depth about how it all works.

https://www.youtube.com/user/whygoldandsilver

nice man, thanks for sharing will 100% be putting this on later

I binged watched the series in one night. No regrets haha. Really gets the brain matter flowing. That link is to his main channel, it seems he has a lot of new content. Even some videos on crypto.

This is the link to his main series I was talking about, that goes in to great depth on banking, the federal reserve, fiat currency and economics as a whole. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU&list=PLE88E9ICdipidHkTehs1VbFzgwrq1jkUJ

thanks muchly, think you might like richard werner

I do indeed. Interesting solutions. Mike's series (if I remember correctly, it's been a few years) doesn't really go in to any solutions to the many economical issues we have, if at all. So this was a nice listen. Ty!

Quantitative Easing.

The ECB have been doing it for years, with no federal reserve at all.

All countries do it to a greater or lesser extent.

The reason the (US) dollar is so popular is they have a federal reserve (gold).

The reason the Euro is failing is it's based upon the German banks and their megalomaniacal desire to control Europe.

There is no EU federal reserve. Only German banks.

When the EU (and Euro) collapses, Germany will be fine, the other 26 member states will fail.

Invest as you will.

Cheers. BB

Petrodollar is interesting on another topic. What do you think ? It’s funny what is out there that the vast majority of people do not know about in the financial and political landscape. The petrodollar is perplexing to me

Money is just an I Owe U ... it says so on your GBP £ notes ! something like ... ''I promise to pay the bearer the sum of twenty pounds'' .... hmmm? but you are handing over a physical £20 note made out of paper or plastic. BUT it still is an I OWE YOU, because the actual note is a ''promise TO pay'' .. the note is not backed up by gold anymore...back in the day... money was real... now it is just digital numbers on screens, according to my limited knowledge about it. I will keep up with this thread tho, as I would like to hear what others on LB think :)

Spot on smokey!

"since banks work as the accountants of record – while the rest of the economy assumes they are honest accountants – it is possible for the banks to increase the money in the accounts of some of us (those who receive a loan), by simply altering the figures. Nobody else will notice, because agents cannot distinguish between money that had actually been saved and deposited and money that has been created ‘out of nothing’ by the bank” - Richard Werner

Yes if they say its "in the bank" that's all it takes to do what they want with it - regardless of whether it exists.

Banks literally print money and we are expected to accept it has value when in actual fact there is nothing backing fiat currencies anymore. Used to be that dollar was backed by gold reserves then oil but now its backed by the promise... Basically the whole world is in a debt/credit spiral that will unravial at some point...

The dollar will collapse, thank me later

CBDC coming soon.. to a place near you!

(Not Financial Advice) 🥸

Money printer go brrr

Come back Bro - we miss you!

Nb. this post is probably from 2010! 🤦‍♂️

One word. Credit.

They don't create money, they create an illusion. Pepe is the only money worth anything

All began with financial deregulation in the 1970’s . The banks just click some buttons and magic. Then you pay them back, what a business!!!

This is a major cause of inflation. They are putting money that hasn’t been earned yet from the future in todays circulation . That’s why our money 💰 s worth fuck all now. Well one of the many reasons;)

I thought we just discovered all money, is in fact, cake.

not individual banks! but they do make money lol dont make much sense does it

little ben

yes, individual banks, check out the werner stuff in this thread. basically it's just accounting that makes them book things twice. if it's on a bank's books it is money.

When a bank makes a loan it is creating fiat currency

It grows on trees

They don't, they make up fiat currency (£, $, € ect ect) just a bar code number to give it a vaule. Money is only something that can be equally treaded fairly ie gold.

They use our money

Take a look at how the Americans fund things like war etc and how they use the federal reserve and petro dollar, very very interesting

It's depending on the existing customers within the bank actually , so you deposit money into the so called bank but in fact the bank lends it to other people within the banking system and charges interest on that.
Banks are the only ones legally able to create wealth out of thin air , digits on the computer.
For example when you get a loan - digits , but you have return back with interest to the bank Real money from your job , revenue streams.
Circular Banking.

It's all about complex energy numbers.

good thread :)

Yes Werner's study explains the double ledger. The implications being that when you deposit your own fiat, what is really happening is that the banks are purchasing security futures from you with promises to pay. The b of e charter actually explains that they cannot and do not lend money or take deposits.
White rabbit trust on YouTube and youandyourcash.com seek and example plenty of successful remedy.

Kinda feel what you're saying bigga but also out of curiosity what institution committed you and when do you get out?

🤣

Portuguese Communist Party is against legalisation. I was raised and supported Communism most of my life. But life is slowly showing me the true side of Communism. Enjoy LB and your "freedom" before Communist China becomes the main nation, and puts you in line with their social score system.

Yeah I know, the other side is no way better.

I now support only one last party that leans left in portugal. If that party starts loosing their grip like all the other party's from the left... well... I guess I need to sit and think what do I believe and support. Cause things have changed quite drastically since 2019... :)

How much are you expecting the party to allow you to smoke and what quality would you expect?
IMHO it would be meagre rations of soapbar or big bud, but everyone would be smoking the same shit so no one would complain about it.

Communism without the party would make for a great party.

Yes Comrade, from each according to their ability, to each according to their tolerance.

1. **"Weed under capitalism is a commodity—exploited, taxed, and sold back to you at a premium!** Under communism? *Free the plant, free the people!*"

2. **"The bourgeoisie fears an awake proletariat—but an *elevated* one?** Now a nightmare for these haters!

3. **"But remember, comrades: **The revolution will not be vaporized—it must be *organized*… even if the meeting notes are scribbled on a pizza box at 3 AM.**"**

I think there has always been feudalism in one form or another. There is always a class that ultimately owns everything because they can confiscate it, grant it a "title" or tax it. This premise always leads to same outcome it's just a matter of how greedy or insane the current landlord is.

Everything consolidates one way or another, thats why decentralization is both great and doomed.

Anthropologist David Graeber did a book about about this myth called Debt. There is no evidence for class dominant economics bar this relatively small and recent period of time. Obviously the myth has more value than the reality.

interesting dude, thanks for the tip

probably starting from the neolithic era yes with the only exception of the 20th century, the only period of history where people got a bit of control of the power. Now is going to be lost for decades to come.

We need to look on the bright side, we are actually free serfs. We are free to seek a new master and we can seek redress in the crown courts, unfree serfs couldn't. However if we hadn't spent so much bit coin here we might actually be free with the value of it now.

sometimes a imagine a stack of the coins over time and shiver. so then i buy more weed.

Wise words, Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel says the same but takes 350 odd pages.

I call it digital feaudalism. And yes, we have never really exited the feudal system. It just morphs and transforms, keeping the 1% at the top, making almost all the rest their slaves.

yes, were hard wired for this shit

Nice hook

Thanks for sharing.

I see examples of this not just on the internet but in all industries. Walk down most high streets here in the UK and they now pretty much all look identical the same shops, coffee shops and chain restaurants with very few independent offerings. The cost of rent, business rates and all the red tape make it pretty much impossible nowadays for small independents to even start up.

Watching a show about fisherman on the BBC painted a picture of the EU quota system they must use and how the industry is dominated by money and huge boats and how these owners buy up small fishing boats and take the quotas these boats have to use on the mega trawlers.

The car industry seems totally monopolised now and we actually get very little choice - notice how the different makers share chassis and engines and the only real difference you get is the interior and badge. Everything else is pretty much controlled by rules and regulations.

It is obvious that these big players of industry are in cahoots with the those that set the rules and regulations as we saw with the emissions scandal with VW and EU collaboration.

Covid and lockdowns have exacerbated the situation as many small business owners left without any financial supports have gone to the wall while government loans to the huge corporations sit unused in their bank accounts.

Truly depressing times.

This is the model dreamed up by Gabrielle D'Nunzio, Mussolini, Franco and later tried by Stroessner, Pinochet and Thatcher. Always fails cos tho i am a committed capitalist even i realise extraction cannot work for ever as either you run out of victims (Franco, Pinochet) or the victims turn on you (Mussolini, Thatcher) At least Il Duce didn't cry when his turn came, Thatcher mewled and puked like a rat.

thatcher was as much a military dictator as she was latin

Fascinating. Bleak. truly people have been brainwashed by the media and now vote with their wallets. Far more regulation required at the top end, we cant stop the progress, and in many ways it serves us well. Democracy can still win the day, and we can unite for the good of all people. Education is the key, and a few good humans can change the world. It cant be allowed that rampant free market capitalism destroys us. Roll on technical singularity, according to Moores law would be around 2042 but i believe the theory is faultering (Moores law) so might take a bit longer. Technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible, resulting in unforeseeable changes to human civilization. We have just leisure time so we study philosophy and all becone enlightened beings living in a tech utopia. Peace

Moore's law is doing fine once you abstract it to include progress besides chip density. Computation overall is on track when you include advances in software and a.i.

it will take more than economics for everyone to spend their leisure time studying philosophy. but im with you at least

Hope so but would we be the same beings, even the same species? I think Nietszche was mostly a clown but "homo, ecce homo" hits home

What is Neo Feudalism and being British mean?

Neo-feudalism refers to a concept that draws parallels between modern societal structures and the feudal system of the Middle Ages. It suggests that power and wealth are concentrated in the hands of a few influential individuals or entities, leading to a significant wealth disparity and limited social mobility. In a neo-feudalistic system, there may be an entrenched hierarchy, with a small elite class exerting control over economic, political, and social aspects, while the majority of the population faces limited opportunities and struggles to improve their circumstances.

Being British refers to being a citizen or a resident of the United Kingdom or having a connection to British culture and heritage. It typically implies a sense of national identity associated with the customs, traditions, and values of the British people. It encompasses aspects such as the English language, British history, British institutions, and cultural practices that are prevalent in the UK. However, it's important to note that "being British" can mean different things to different people, as it can encompass a diverse range of identities and perspectives within the multicultural society of the United Kingdom,

digital land barons & their consumers

Like the last feudal era they will ultimately fail IMO. Biden, bezos, bj and the two conos in NZ & Canada are only one mad bomber away from losing all the kleptocratic gains they have extracted. Putin and Xi poss a battalion or two away. Even if the above are stopped there are always despots trying their luck. The better angels of our nature (thanks Pinker, S) have always stayed in the fight so that the new boss is NOT always the same as the old boss (thanks Townshend, P)

if you change communism to community then you dont have to go very far for an answer

If you shit in a pint glass, it looks like mud!

if you put mud in a pint glass it takes like shit

the family fridge

German Peasant's War (where the word communism derives), Paris Commune, two Russian revolutions minus the Bolsheviks, Makhnochina, Spanish revolution, German revolution, May 68, etc. etc. etc.

Losing in the first half don't mean the game's over.

I don't think Communism has ever worked as Capitalists are always creaming off the top.

A great book on the subject is Eat The Rich by the US satirist (and huge drug consumer) P.J. O'Rourke. I think his and my politics are probably polar opposites, but you could get fucked up at a party with him and have an amazing time. Anyway, good book. Breaks down all sorts of different political stances, and Good Communism is one chapter, and Bad Communism another. He's a funny guy, but maybe don't consider it as in depth reasoned academic analysis.

Ah, fuck. He died in 2022. No future parties.

kibbutzes

The reason you don't hear any success stories is because there ain't none.

Come on down voters give me a success story if you don't like the truth?? Bloody Marxists never except that it doesn't work. What ever iteration you can think of it WONT WORK!!!! everyone being the same sucks the fun out of life accept that hard work pays!

I'm not advocating for Communism but our society is full of people grafting their respective genitalia off that are still struggling financially. The idea that hard work pays ( properly) is a idea propagated by people seeking to exploit the labour of others. Nobody should need to claim benefits whilst working full time and yet...
Fwiw, I do advocate for a mixed economy. Nationalised energy, health, water, public transport etc and luxuries at the will of the free market.

Exactly this - capitalism needs the grafters, the hardworking cogs to keep coming in to replace those that fall off or fall through the cracks.

"that hard work pays" is often true and the capitalists don't only pontificate this to the masses they teach it to their children. children they practise communism with.

You shouldn't be allowed to claim any benefits while in full time employment. It's crazy, we are basically subsidising employers who ought to be paying more.

And I hope that, one day, employers decide paying a living wage is more important than ever increasing profits such that in work benefits are no longer necessary. I propose a link between maximum and minimum pay within an organisation. Let's say; no pay ( overall package including bonuses, perks and dividends) higher than 5x the lowest full time salary.

it wouldn't even have to be a regulation, the government does business with so many companies and beneficiaries. if they don't have these multiples in place no people's funds.

employers don't make that call so much as owners do and when the owner is the stock market it's quite blind to anything but profits.

when the owners are the employees this changes priorities.

I’m sure there are loads they just don’t teach us about them. Capitalism doesn’t work either does it? Too many greedy pocket filling bastards. We are all the same having money doesn’t make you better than anyone else, the fact you are here spouting this shows what a sad state the world is in 😞

under capitalism hard work has never paid and never will pay lmfao. communism actually prioritises labour, capitalism is about fat pigs at the top skimming off 99% of the profit we produce for them. do you not find it utterly insane tesco has like 5 different in-house brands with varying prices for essentially the same product? or that having less money means you have to settle for lower quality products that are worse for you and spoil faster?

So, you don't think lifting 4/5ths of the world out of relative poverty can be considered "paying off"?
OK Che, communism good 🤣👌

there are children starving in this very country

do you have a source for this? not trying to challenge so much as i would like to learn more about it. maybe there is even a way the community could help.

food for the hungry is legit and accepts crypto

there are community outreach programs and obviously government funded systems like food banks to help, but the crisis only really exists because the capitalist system is designed that way. we have the resources to end world hunger but it's not economically beneficial so it will never happen

these are sources on food insecurity in the uk for 2023 and 2024:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9209/
https://foodfoundation.org.uk/initiatives/food-insecurity-tracking#tabs/Round-15

Does the existence of those children make anything I said less true?
Strawman though. I didn't make a claim that there is no poverty in any country. I think you missed the qualifiers "relative" and "4/5ths" of the world.
I would say, that "starving" inarguably applies to way less than 1 in 5 children in the UK, US or anywhere in the West which makes your point about the ills of capitalism fairly moot in context.
I am no fan of cronyism, and I don't think capitalism is utopia, but it's insane to try and persuade anybody that communism would do better than this.
Thanks for the downvotes. I have over a thousand upvotes and less than 30 down.
Drop me a line next time you are tipping your bathwater into the atalantic. I'll do it too 🤣

"I have over a thousand upvotes and less than 30 down"

This is one of the saddest things I've ever read on the internet xD

TLDR

Ah, the Lords prayer of the troll world.
In other words, you have nothing worth saying because you are too vacuous to argue your way out of the little communist hole you dug 🤣
Thick.

found the reddit moderator 😂

Do you mean the actual communists who don't want to respond to fair and cogent points about their lack of reasoning?

You should look into some unbiased reporting on the soviet Union, and some witness statements from the older generation who lived through it.

You will find that many of them tell you life was better in the USSR, than in post USSR Eastern Europe and Russia. Besides that they were several decades ahead of the west on womens rights and social services.

But like anything good, the Americans bring it down from the inside, or out, USSR, Great Britain, either way. Their media controls the narritive, and communism effects their ability to steal all the money. There is a reason Cinema is oversaturated with anti Communist rhetoric.

I'd honestly rather have the worst communist government, than be America number 2.

i'd settle for being ireland number 0.5 :)

they currently have more than double the uk's gdp per capita

Yeah and east germany was the most successful communist country of all, just ask anyone that wasn't killed trying to leave.

Have you ever listened to Konstantin Kisin? A Jewish family - He moved when he was 9 from the ussr to England at the end of the soviet Union just before the fall. His first hand account of his own life tells a very different story to what you describe.

love triggernometry

The communists on this thread think KK first hand account of late soviet communism is invalid for some reason.
I suspect many of them have never listened to a reasonable, adult centrist common sense. Perhaps it is not synonymous with the cult like adherence to social, political orthodoxy that would like to see nebulous victimhood everywhere.

Hey man, great discussion, and I'm no authority but I had to retort to your 'hard work pays' comment: I have to disagree, hard work doesn't pay - call me whatever but nurses, teachers, delivery drivers, anyone in public service, works their asses off for little pay and much abuse from all sides.

We exist in Capitalism and while hard work and 'hustle' works for a short period for a small number, hard work is not a critical proponent of Capitalism, that's increasingly evident, imo.

Nice alt greenbeans/cherry cola. I can't believe you are actually calling other people schizo and creating multiple accounts to appear to support yourself 🤣

you are a literal schizo, my comment was just insulting you for being a pathetic redditor bragging about 1000 upvotes ,never mentioned politics, this guys actually responding with points and now you dont respond because you schizophrenically think im him. 😂😂😂

hilarious thanks for proving your sanity

You didn't respond with any political talk aside from your comment about reddit that makes NO sense. Yes, you really didn't. But you did downvote every comment I made on this thread within a minute when you appeared on it before we had any interaction. Just as restricted account Tiger man did 🤣

you bragged about having 1000 upvotes which is pathetic redditor behaviour 😂 not that difficult to figure out as long as you arent an obsessed psychotic responding 5 times to a little comment, oh wait 😂😂😂

I'm actually really surprised that you are hating on reddit. There are so many commies on there that want everybody else to do the hard work for them. Sounds up your street.

Kerala India is a success story

There is. It's UK

I came here to say this. Glad someone else knows what's going on.

It's gradual. Socialism is the route to communism. The NHS, which we are all trained from an early age to worship, was one of the first big steps in socialism. Benefits too.

Do you all remember when Richard Madeley of all people called out Susan Michie for being a member of the Communist party? She was a main player in the 'behaviour science' part of the scamdemic. Do you remember how we were all pressured into performing that awful clap for the NHS gesture? That was like something out of North Korea/China, where citizens are softly compelled into worshipping the state - like those obvious crocodile tears that were shed over Kim of N Korea.

Ugh, most people are too close to it to see it but it is ABUNDANTLY clear.

I would recommend anyone to watch Yuri Bezmenovs lecture on how the west gets subverted to Communism. He was a soviet defector who used to subvert countries and bring them into the soviet fold for a living.

@Chambertin4 I wish we lived in the world you think we live in xD

The rich people who own the media want to push an ideology that stops them being able to hoarde all the wealth? care to explain how that makes sense?

im happy living right here

i think all the best examples of communism are monuments

open source software (you're soaking in it)

I don't think you'll find any. They've tried it and hundreds of millions died. Ok in principle but man's greed quickly takes over.

yeah it's the trickery of it from the knowers side and the sheer gullibility from the mark.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

To the naive person, this quote from Marx sounds like everyone will just pull their own weight for others and everyones needs will be met.

But with the benefit of hindsight, it is clearly a recipe for slave labour/the gulag system where each man is worked to his utmost but only has his basic needs met. Pretty clear with the benefit of hindsight.

There are no luxuries. Worked to the max, as much as your body can stand and in return you are provided a concrete bed, thin blanket and bowl of gruel twice a day. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

Concrete bed?
This could easily be satire. Thanks for the laughs. xD