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+16
bBoi
by  bBoi
How is Nationalism Any Different from Racism?
I don't want to give preference to someone the same color as me so why should I prefer someone for being born in the same country as me (or worse they are ordained a citizen by some twat)?
+1
Draconian blue
Draconian blue
The difference between racism and nationalism is about 3 joints!
+4
Jeffreyfly
Jeffreyfly
Proper kettle of fish this one! but I couldn’t resist throwing my 2 cents in.

Racism is an inherent belief that one group are superior to another based purely on membership to said group; that for example being white would mean that you are superior to non-whites by virtue of your whiteness. Although this is of course the most common example, it’s important to remember that racism has been perpetrated by, and against, a multitude of groups such as the current situation in China with Uighur Muslims and so on.

Nationalism is the identification with ones nation and the desire to see that nation succeed. often, but not exclusively, to the detriment of other nations.

One can be a nationalist but not a racist, but I would argue that it’s quite rare to meet a racist who is not also a nationalist.

I don’t think nationalism is always a bad thing - we saw for example at the onset of COVID-19 in Europe a large degree of nationalism as all of these countries that are part of the Schengen Agreement suddenly conveniently ignored the treaty in order to shut their borders and protect their citizens (uselessly, as it turned out) against the spread of C19.

However, nationalist sentiment needs to be controlled carefully because the downside to it could be seen, you could argue, In the Capitol siege/riots on January 6th as nationalist fervour tends to spread and morph very rapidly and almost always ends in violence and almost always ends in Fascism

Sorry for the wall of text but this is such a fascinating topic!
+0
24601
24601
Nationalism has more positive range for example promoting culture. Racism is usually associated with negative feelings about other races.

They both seem doomed if you ask me.
+3
Bigbum
Bigbum
Because we can change our nationality as it’s make believe. You cannot change your DNA which is real
+2
gypsum_fantastic
gypsum_fantastic
Racism is necessarily exclusionary. But Nationalism isn't.

In general I am wary of nationalism, but there are times when it has achieved positives.
British Bulldog
British Bulldog9.9/10
Well i'm of dual heritage (my dad was from the West Indies and my mum is English) so my 'British Bulldog' avatar and profile might upset some in this thread, but yeah, i'm proud of all of my heritage.

Racism is very ugly, and you know it when you experience it.

Pride in one's heritage is completely different.

Cheers. BB
+6
vikosh79
vikosh7910/10
Basically it derives from the same origins. There are certain laws of ethnic relations in history of humankind, such as:

1. law of percentage: lets say a black person somewhere in gothenburg or copenhagen would trigger an amused curiosity and the outpouring of sincere sympathy, however, if you "inject" immigrant workers up to the fateful threshold of 4-8 percent and you will already have a racial situation - the nature of social relationships changes, engendering ethnic tensions, global reflexes painful to describe. The more the percentage increases, the more class struggle transforms itself into racial confrontation. Basically, this percentage is sufficient to make racial discrimination appear spontaneously in people who previously believed itself wholesome and devoid of any racist sentiment.

2. The law of assimilability: If majority and the minority belong to the same large ethnic group (all are white, or all a asian), then assimilation occurs progressively. For example, Spanish or Portuguese workers despised in France not so long ago, integrated themselves into population within the space of one generation; same for descendants of corsicans and the poles during napoleonic era, same for bambara minority living in senegal. But if the ethnic and cultural gap is too big, tensions are exacerbated with time. Like African Blacks and Arabs find themselves in this situation in Europe. Coexistance basically becomes possible only in a truly Socialist state or a state that has adopted a high morality philosophy.

3. the law of distance: like two ethnic groups that are not fighting over the same living space or same market and occupy different territories separated by space can enter into normal relationships. Like that an alliance can be explained during world war 2 between hitlers germany and japan. or relationship of pretoria with israel state.

4. the law of phenotype: basically physical appearance. It would matter little tgat botha and zulu in africa have the same genotype (same genes in the chromosomes) and it would have no influence on their daily lives because their external features are so different.
Laws of class struggle according to history applies only to societies previously made homogeneous by violence. Funny, that the most modern nations actually went through this bestial struggles before (Americas, australia, new zealand, good part of asia, greenland, huge part of pacific, scandinavia, etc, etc).For example Blacks of Americas were brough over to work the land, while the indigenous races were being destroyed. So, the "more advanced" barbarious conquerors exterminated/drove out whole populations, devastated or abandoned productive forces they they simply did not know how to use. This specific law is one of my favourite... how spartan domination ended by crumbling particularly because of the great numeric weakness of their REAL citizens. Because their society consisting of spartan conquerors and lowly helots both belonged to the same large white-skinned 'race', ethnic differences became blurred and it allowed class differences appeared only in an economic sense.
Same goes for Rome and Carthage, Rwanda-Burundi, Francs and Gallo-Romans.
Have a look at the american immigration laws and how it progressed throghout 19-20 centuries. This law also gave birth to so called intra-european racism, etc.

We forget that the passage from a clan to a monolingual tribe and to ethnic group and to nationality historically was a result, a consequences of clans exogamy. It is still widely discussed by specialists. But it marked starting point of the current civilization.
Endogamy was prohibited and we, humans, just started fucking people from the outside kkk several neibourhing clans contracted marriage ties that led them eventually to speak same languages despite that their original idioms were different.
The number of clans to gather together to work a more or less powerful tribe didnt follow any rules and depended mostly on the fertility and extent of the lands occupied by the group. Thus was born nationality.

In the course of history, when two groups of people argued over a vital economic space, the slightest ethnic difference can be magnified, temporarily serving as a pretext for social and political cleavage: differences in physical appearances, colour of your passport, language, religions, morals and customs.

We forget that basically future generations must forget about the dead so that the conquering people can undergo a rebirth with an angelic consience.
Why do we almost idolise, for example, conquistadors, holy crusaders and vikings? Pillagers, rapists, murderers and worse.

Most of the things we learn and follow, most of the times, blindly, things we consider as truths and solid facts, the very foundation of our personal universes - it was predominantly build based on someones ideologies.

Books, that our kids and us read, are also written under certain circumstances, conditions, requirements, with certain motivations. Dictated by an ideology.

Sooo.... sorry for the massive message. It just questions like this trigger something inside me, something that i consciously try to understand and overcome. For before we are races or nationalities, boys or girls, gays or straight, we are humans.

Peace yo.
+3
whatcanido234
whatcanido234
Interesting points. I just came across this forum and will make a contribution. Meanwhile, on the topic of Scottish Nationalism, I have myself proposed Independence For England! We English (whatever that means through consensus) vote in a referendum to dissolve the union of England and Scotland. Never mind what they want, how about what we want, which may be to separate from them, along with the subject nation of Wales. We'll have our own oven ready breakfast and our own national covid death toll, while we surrender the last shreds of our integrity to the fucking Yanks and the fucking Chinese whose government leaders wouldn't make the groove as a couple of Pox Doctor's clerks.
+2
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
Please dont have the idea that all Scots want independence
. Plenty are and always will be happy to be part of the union. There is more at play than just Scottish Independence, certain elements see Scottish independence as a means to help another cause. Understand that Independence of Scotland is not the endgame for a lot of SNP supporters.
+1
whatcanido234
whatcanido234
High Raskolnikov. Your post showed as a comment on mine so You're addressing me, then. I have no intention of stating anything about what Scots want. My point is that I consider an English Independence Referendum is incumbent on ourselves to determine our Englishness without the input of the other three nations. Devolution, revolution, phooey! We want ablution. Wash our hands of the lot of you. Do we? Who does? Has anyone got this underway? Sturgeon and Salmond? Something fishy about those two!
+1
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
I certainly don’t need a referendum to establish my Scottishness.
+0
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
I wouldn’t blame the English people if they started to see things this way but we are still all better as a union and I think you know this. Sturgeon and Salmond are just typical politicians mate who lying is a big part of the job description. There has been a huge change in Scotland in my lifetime where the working class vote has moved away from labour to the snp. Labour has shot themselves in the foot so many times but also the snp politics has changed. I have been on this earth a long time and the snp have changed so much. Sturgeon is still using her bloody daily briefing up here to try to indoctrinate the nation. I’m going to stop here as I am ranting.
+1
Yas
Yas
Sturgeon's manifesto was just a wish list, impossible to accomplish. I don't want Scotland to leave. We may rib each other on things but I'd like to think we have each others back when things get tough. We live on the same island. Crazy to break up.
+1
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
British here too. I feel like the silent majority of my country are the same
+2
whatcanido234
whatcanido234
Not English, then. To be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life. That life being the infliction of Imperialism on 25% of the world's population. Nothing wrong with that, was there?
+1
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
Cool. What were you born?
+2
Kargo3
Kargo3
I am British not Scottish or Welsh or Irish or English but British.
So the idea of England going on its own is kind of laughable.
I prefer this great country as one nation,I have lived all over UK so I class myself as British. Ever since devolved countries we had loads of petty arguments enough of the arguments and do there jobs.
The Scottish independence route will end up like n ireland scottish people are divided straight down the middle so can see issues battle grounds comes to mind bombings etc etc just like n ireland AND its not going to happen anyway thank god.:D
Or you english going be invaded of all the people that do not want there countries independent lol.

Plus the Queen will never allow it to happen she is still the most powerful lady in this country and can override any laws in the UK set by government it is in the small print when she signed it over to the government. She has her palaces all over the UK.

She wants to send to her son to America to answer for the crimes he is guilty as fk otherwise he would have gone over and answered there questions on very serious sex crimes.
Guilty as fk he is by dodging the request of the FBI and CIA law to himself hiding behind mummy he is.

I am British loud and proud !!!
+2
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
I’m British and Scottish mate. Think it is possible to be both. I’m not interested in Independence and believe it will not happen and will be a disaster if it does. In Scotland Salmond courted a certain block vote and got it. That is what has got the snp to where they are. That and shortbread tin thinking. They will soon want to let over 14 s vote. As I said in another post, Scottish Independence is not the endgame for a lot of snp.
+1
hell bent for pleather
hell bent for pleather
Wait do Scotts not have bangers and mash?
+1
mick1979
mick1979
they have square sausage irn bru snowballscand empire biscuits my mother scottish my father english i welcone one and all but to me i cant be guilty of what generations before me did i recoqnise it i appreciate it but i live my life anti racist anti hurt anti bully anti violence. id give my last pound to anyone black white purple dosent matter in.my eyes. im.a believer in greater good il leave the politics alone as im.not educated enough in the subject to reasonably comment
+5
Golmagnum
Golmagnum
Scotland's nationalist party don't want to exclude races, they want independence from another countries rule. It's not about racism.
+1
HotMeatPie
HotMeatPie
Unless is the European Union.
+5
diceman
diceman
lol. ok, i'll bite...

nationalism is a term for those with common interests as citizens of the same country working together for mutual benefit and/or pride.

racism is a hatred of one or more person/s where skin colour is the basis used for the defining attribute.

neither is mandatory last I heard.
+7
The Cheesemaster
The Cheesemaster9.3/10
Not necessarily, Scottish nationalism is an attempt to escape racism
+0
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
Sounds like something a Scottish nationalist would say.
+2
silk worm
silk worm
good one, i guess that goes for any anti colonial movement like vietnam for example
+1
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
It was a joke mate but fuck, Vietnam. Is that what you are comparing Scottish Independence to?
+5
poop lion
poop lion
a lot of nationalists aren't so much racists as exclusionary. they believe in a social contact that only exists amongst members. outsiders are not part of the deal.
+1
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
Sounds kinda like racism.
Spudulika
Spudulika
Just like you would naturally have a preference for feeding your own family in your own home, before you concerned yourself with feeding anyone else.

This would not mean you hated other people, or didn't wish the best for them.

I think Nationalism is often confused with extreme Right wing ideologies, when it could be Left or Right really.
+1
Bud`n'Beer
Bud`n'Beer
The national front! They were nationalists that says all you need to know!!!
+3
green face killa
green face killa
national socialists also skew a little right
+1
Raskolnikov
Raskolnikov
Look into snp and the past. They have changed a lot.
+1
Parkedman
Parkedman
Yes you could look into the SNPs distant past or alternatively you could look at what the Tories are doing right now as we speak under your very nose.
It is funny how a conversation about nationalism is related to the SNP when anyone with eyes can see that British nationalism is the one being pushed everywhere in Britain.
The SNP didn't spend 2 million quid on a set of blue curtains and two Union Jacks and it is not the SNP who are plastering everything with the Butcher's apron either!
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